Stewart Downing..

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Avfc_4eva_Sotc on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:22 am

Its a ludicrous argument really, no one in there right mind could honestly label Young in the same bracket as some of the actual average players down near the foot of the league.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villainies on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:23 am

Rooney....and Cashley.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Internazionale_Villa on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:45 am

I think Young will become class at man utd now, hes one of those players who needs top class players around him for him to improve.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:05 am

roadoftrinity wrote:
jpr60 wrote:Just for the sake of "good order" one would have to add The Arsenal defence in any list of outstanding top PL players, as a unit, thus -
Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn plus Keown and Campbell.
There, that's better!

Neither Dixon or Winterburn made it at international level in an average England side so in the rules that you Arsenal fan's specified, they are nothing more than average I'm afraid.

What rules did I specify? The discussion that I have been having surrounds Young's ability, to date, as a PL player.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:09 am

QBVILLA wrote:
roadoftrinity wrote:
jpr60 wrote:Just for the sake of "good order" one would have to add The Arsenal defence in any list of outstanding top PL players, as a unit, thus -
Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn plus Keown and Campbell.
There, that's better!

Neither Dixon or Winterburn made it at international level in an average England side so in the rules that you Arsenal fan's specified, they are nothing more than average I'm afraid.

Nor Bould and to be fair Adams spent years in the international wilderness after being labelled a donkey at Euro '88.Keown was never first choice either, only ever in there to cover injuries.All excellent players IMO but due to jak's criteria they are shit. Very Happy

That is absolute bollocks and you know it!!!! Rolling Eyes

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:15 am

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Its a ludicrous argument really, no one in there right mind could honestly label Young in the same bracket as some of the actual average players down near the foot of the league.

But if you made a list of players rated on ability, over the years in the PL as we've seen from QB's post, Young, AT PRESENT, would be nowhere near the bottom of that list but by the same token nowhere near the top. Those towards the top of that list would be the better players, those at the bottom would be the poorer players and the pack in the middle where, in my opinion Young would figure would be average. In PREMIER LEAGUE terms.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:18 am

Internazionale_Villa wrote:I think Young will become class at man utd now, hes one of those players who needs top class players around him for him to improve.

You think Young will become class at Man U, so you accept he's not true class now.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:19 am

jak wrote:

What rules did I specify? The discussion that I have been having surrounds Young's ability, to date, as a PL player.

jak wrote:
Remember, Young could not command a regular place in a very poor international side because he's just an average player.

Plus, your view was that players are either world class or average. So Dixon and Winterburn, were they world class? Even though they couldn't get a game for England? Can hardly call them world class can you if they couldn't play for their country?

So they are both average.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:27 am

roadoftrinity wrote:
jak wrote:

What rules did I specify? The discussion that I have been having surrounds Young's ability, to date, as a PL player.

jak wrote:
Remember, Young could not command a regular place in a very poor international side because he's just an average player.

Plus, your view was that players are either world class or average. So Dixon and Winterburn, were they world class? Even though they couldn't get a game for England? Can hardly call them world class can you if they couldn't play for their country?

So they are both average.

You've picked out a bit of my post and taken it out of context. At least pay me the courtesy of reading my whole post and seeing the remarks I made in their true context.
However, if you want to play, we will.
No, Dixon and Winterburn were NOT world class, I never said they were!!! They were above average PREMIER LEAGUE players.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:30 am

jak wrote:[q

You've picked out a bit of my post and taken it out of context. At least pay me the courtesy of reading my whole post and seeing the remarks I made in their true context.
However, if you want to play, we will.
No, Dixon and Winterburn were NOT world class, I never said they were!!! They were above average PREMIER LEAGUE players.

But it did the job. This is exactly what we are trying to say, you were saying Young is just an average Premier League player because he is not World Class, however he surely at least an above average Premier League player is we are allowed that category? Very Happy

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Avfc_4eva_Sotc on Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:30 am

jak wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Its a ludicrous argument really, no one in there right mind could honestly label Young in the same bracket as some of the actual average players down near the foot of the league.

But if you made a list of players rated on ability, over the years in the PL as we've seen from QB's post, Young, AT PRESENT, would be nowhere near the bottom of that list but by the same token nowhere near the top. Those towards the top of that list would be the better players, those at the bottom would be the poorer players and the pack in the middle where, in my opinion Young would figure would be average. In PREMIER LEAGUE terms.

And no one is saying young is at the top of that list, but at the top are the world class players and the true greats, fantastic players, as you go down the list you get to very good and good players and Young would be in there, your argument is that you are either world class and will be remembered in Premierleague history folklore for years or your average, thats ridiculous.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:02 am

roadoftrinity wrote:
jak wrote:[q

You've picked out a bit of my post and taken it out of context. At least pay me the courtesy of reading my whole post and seeing the remarks I made in their true context.
However, if you want to play, we will.
No, Dixon and Winterburn were NOT world class, I never said they were!!! They were above average PREMIER LEAGUE players.

But it did the job. This is exactly what we are trying to say, you were saying Young is just an average Premier League player because he is not World Class, however he surely at least an above average Premier League player is we are allowed that category? Very Happy

Look, don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say he's average because he's not world class. Very very few players are truly world class but many are above average, even more are average, of which AT PRESENT, Young is one.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:05 am

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
jak wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Its a ludicrous argument really, no one in there right mind could honestly label Young in the same bracket as some of the actual average players down near the foot of the league.

But if you made a list of players rated on ability, over the years in the PL as we've seen from QB's post, Young, AT PRESENT, would be nowhere near the bottom of that list but by the same token nowhere near the top. Those towards the top of that list would be the better players, those at the bottom would be the poorer players and the pack in the middle where, in my opinion Young would figure would be average. In PREMIER LEAGUE terms.

And no one is saying young is at the top of that list, but at the top are the world class players and the true greats, fantastic players, as you go down the list you get to very good and good players and Young would be in there, your argument is that you are either world class and will be remembered in Premierleague history folklore for years or your average, thats ridiculous.

That is not my argument at all!!!

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:14 am

jak wrote:

Look, don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say he's average because he's not world class. Very very few players are truly world class but many are above average, even more are average, of which AT PRESENT, Young is one.

I'm not putting words into your mouth, if you look back through the thread, I think a few of us certainly got the impression you were saying as he wasn't world class he was average.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:26 am

roadoftrinity wrote:
jak wrote:

Look, don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say he's average because he's not world class. Very very few players are truly world class but many are above average, even more are average, of which AT PRESENT, Young is one.

I'm not putting words into your mouth, if you look back through the thread, I think a few of us certainly got the impression you were saying as he wasn't world class he was average.

A few of you have got it wrong then. That argument would indeed be ridiculous and I don't waste this much energy being ridiculous.
Incidentally, wasn't it you who said Young could become class at Man U? Does that mean he's average now?

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Internazionale_Villa on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:33 am

He was our best player, best of a bunch of decent footballers. Now hes at United surrounded by world class players, he's only going to get better.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:33 am

jak wrote:
wasn't it you who said Young could become class at Man U?

Nope, it wasn't. Can you stop putting words into my mouth please. Very Happy

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villainies on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:42 am

The problem with this debate is that a rough set of guidelines weren't set down from the outset. If we work on the basis that there are

Prem Greats - QB's list plus a few others

Good players -

Average players - players that play for the clubs that are mid table year in year out

below average

poor players - west ham

On that basis I would say Young has done enough in his 4 years to be included as a good player. Personally I think he could go on to become a great player but don't think he will and will end up being remembered for being at the top end of the good category.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:42 pm

roadoftrinity wrote:
jak wrote:
wasn't it you who said Young could become class at Man U?

Nope, it wasn't. Can you stop putting words into my mouth please. Very Happy

It was a question (?), I asked if it was you who said it, the answer to which is no.
One of your mates admitted it though Very Happy

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:08 pm

villainies wrote:The problem with this debate is that a rough set of guidelines weren't set down from the outset. If we work on the basis that there are

Prem Greats - QB's list plus a few others

Good players -

Average players - players that play for the clubs that are mid table year in year out

below average

poor players - west ham

On that basis I would say Young has done enough in his 4 years to be included as a good player. Personally I think he could go on to become a great player but don't think he will and will end up being remembered for being at the top end of the good category.


i think that's fair enough apart from when you talk about the clubs they played for.Shearer spent a lot of his Newcastle career in mid table but he was still a class act and there's also Le Tissier who spent the majority of his career fighting relegation battles.In terms of ability Le Tissier is IMO one of the greatest players of premiership years.

Oh and jak, unlike you but you've tied yourself in knots so you are therefore chatting cock Very Happy
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:17 pm

QBVILLA wrote:
villainies wrote:The problem with this debate is that a rough set of guidelines weren't set down from the outset. If we work on the basis that there are

Prem Greats - QB's list plus a few others

Good players -

Average players - players that play for the clubs that are mid table year in year out

below average

poor players - west ham

On that basis I would say Young has done enough in his 4 years to be included as a good player. Personally I think he could go on to become a great player but don't think he will and will end up being remembered for being at the top end of the good category.


i think that's fair enough apart from when you talk about the clubs they played for.Shearer spent a lot of his Newcastle career in mid table but he was still a class act and there's also Le Tissier who spent the majority of his career fighting relegation battles.In terms of ability Le Tissier is IMO one of the greatest players of premiership years.

Oh and jak, unlike you but you've tied yourself in knots so you are therefore chatting cock Very Happy

If anyone's chatting shit it's you.

By the way, I totally agree with you re LeTissier, one of the very best PL players.
Makes Young look even more average. Wink

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villanfromluton on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:20 pm

Admit you are wrong old boy, you have made a right ringo of yourself on this thread Very Happy
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:32 pm

villanfromluton wrote:Admit you are wrong old boy, you have made a right ringo of yourself on this thread Very Happy

My sentiments entirely, QB's got the brain of a budgerigar. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villanfromluton on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:37 pm

jak wrote:
villanfromluton wrote:Admit you are wrong old boy, you have made a right ringo of yourself on this thread Very Happy

My sentiments entirely, QB's got the brain of a budgerigar. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Im talking to you, you one eyed shrivelled knob (according to bully)
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  QBVILLA on Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:25 am

villanfromluton wrote:Admit you are wrong old boy, you have made a right ringo of yourself on this thread Very Happy


cheers
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