Stewart Downing..

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:46 pm

Internazionale_Villa wrote:

Downing has 2 years left, the owners should just come out and say outright he isnt for sale at any price.

If Liverpool came in and offer £25 million Downing with 2 years left on his deal, it would be ridiculous not to sell him.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Internazionale_Villa on Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:50 pm

We've got to at some point stop being known as a selling club, its too easy to sign players from us. We got near 20m for Young, thats enough this season.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:57 pm

Internazionale_Villa wrote:We've got to at some point stop being known as a selling club, its too easy to sign players from us. We got near 20m for Young, thats enough this season.

Unfortunately, we will always be a selling club, certainly when the financial fair play rules come in.

If we have a good season this season, it will just be someone else that is off.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villainies on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:02 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Avfc_4eva_Sotc on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 pm

villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.

and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:09 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

I agree, we should be signing players now, but Adam was never going to come to us, not when we were interested in January either, he was always going to end up at Liverpool.

Might be handy for us to sign a keeper before we go on our pre-season tour though.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villainies on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:11 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.

and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

I don't think we have that sort of money without Downing going TBH and lets be honest someone like Adams will pick Liverpool over us everytime. Sure, we'll miss out on some players but I don't think he'll make any moves until he's spoken to the squad properly and seen them playing.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Tilton on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:13 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.

and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

That's just one of the problems you'll get with McLeish. He likes to use the phrase "due diligence". By the time he's done this "due diligence", other clubs have been alerted to players and quite often have either signed them or are in advanced negotiations with them.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Avfc_4eva_Sotc on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:41 pm

villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.

and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

I don't think we have that sort of money without Downing going TBH and lets be honest someone like Adams will pick Liverpool over us everytime. Sure, we'll miss out on some players but I don't think he'll make any moves until he's spoken to the squad properly and seen them playing.

Yes but if gossip is to be believed, then Adams is only costing them 7m odd thats a good price, no reason we couldn't have thrown in a bid a bit higher and get Blackpool to say to the scousers match the offer, and we get a chance to speak to him and let him know he is more likely to play first team football at VP. Where is the ambition if we won't compete with a team who will only be looking at 5th place best next season.

And who will be next to be snapped up, NZogbia? Given?

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villainies on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:48 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:
villainies wrote:
Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:Next season is going to be shit if Downing goes as well, Bent hardly going to think he has joined an ambitious club is he and he will soon want out the door, hardly looks like the fantastic managerial signing of Mcleish is drawing in the players either...

He hasn't had a chance to speak to most of them yet let alone see them back in training. We need to give him a bit of time yet.

and all the half decent players out there will already be signed up, we really should have been trying to get Charlie Adams in for instance, not just let Liverpool take him without a fight.

I don't think we have that sort of money without Downing going TBH and lets be honest someone like Adams will pick Liverpool over us everytime. Sure, we'll miss out on some players but I don't think he'll make any moves until he's spoken to the squad properly and seen them playing.

Yes but if gossip is to be believed, then Adams is only costing them 7m odd thats a good price, no reason we couldn't have thrown in a bid a bit higher and get Blackpool to say to the scousers match the offer, and we get a chance to speak to him and let him know he is more likely to play first team football at VP. Where is the ambition if we won't compete with a team who will only be looking at 5th place best next season.

And who will be next to be snapped up, NZogbia? Given?

I know what you're saying but I still think he would've gone to Liverpool when push came to shove. AM is in a tricky position here re: getting the squad on board, I think he'll want to at least guage their attitude before spending milliojns on new players. Remember his every move will be scutinized so I don't think we'll be seeing rash decisions made. The keeper situation is different so I reckon they will be working on that right away and given that Downing looks like he wants away then maybe the same with Zog?
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:54 pm

We need N'Zogbia in to replace Ashley Young sure?

If Downing goes then we need another winger. We can just go into the season with Albrighton and N'Zogbia/Downing/someone else.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:41 pm

QBVILLA wrote:
jak wrote:
QBVILLA wrote:Gotta say teh Arsenal old boys generally speak with a certain amount of sense ableit JPR's one eyedness.However, throughout this thread it's been complete bollocks.For a start an 'average' footballer does not play in the premiership.Young whilst not World Class,(who in the Premiership is? Rooney maybe?fabregas? Well he can't get into the Spanish side) is certainly one of the top players in the league.Sir Alex wouldn't be handing over a £20m fee and £120k a week for a player who is 'average'.So in summary, you fellas are chatting utter cock Very Happy

Standards are judged relative to the criteria set. I am talking about the Premier league, of course if we widened that criteria to include all professional players then you would judge most players in the PL as being excellent.
You're right, who in the PL is world class? That's the point, at the moment only one or two but that certainly has not always been the case.
Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate? In the pack, average!!
As I said, he has not been able to secure a regular place in a very poor international side because he has not to date been an outstanding player.
Incidentally, didn't Sir Alex sign Veron? Wink

veron was a top class player, just not suited to the Premiership.I seem to remember Yorke being spoken about in the same terms when he was at Villa.When he got the chance to showcase his talents at United he got plenty of plaudits.Young as a winger, is good enough for any team in the Premiership.IMO an average player wouldn't qualify for that.the fact he hasn't been able to secure a place for England comes down to the opinion of Capello, a man who deemed Beckham surplus to requirements at Real Madrid.As you'll recall Crapello got plenty of stick for not starting with Young last international and in all fairness you can't judge a players ability on his England caps.Phil Neville has more caps than Hoddle,le Tissier and Gascoigne for example.I can't see many people thinking that ugly Phil is better than those three.

Didn't Veron get the chance to showcase his talents at United. He was unarguably, a total flop!!!
As for the rest of what you say, Young has made absolutely no impact at international level.
Now, you've skirted around my question. Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate?

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:49 pm

villainies wrote:
jak wrote:
QBVILLA wrote:Gotta say teh Arsenal old boys generally speak with a certain amount of sense ableit JPR's one eyedness.However, throughout this thread it's been complete bollocks.For a start an 'average' footballer does not play in the premiership.Young whilst not World Class,(who in the Premiership is? Rooney maybe?fabregas? Well he can't get into the Spanish side) is certainly one of the top players in the league.Sir Alex wouldn't be handing over a £20m fee and £120k a week for a player who is 'average'.So in summary, you fellas are chatting utter cock Very Happy

Standards are judged relative to the criteria set. I am talking about the Premier league, of course if we widened that criteria to include all professional players then you would judge most players in the PL as being excellent.
You're right, who in the PL is world class? That's the point, at the moment only one or two but that certainly has not always been the case.
Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate? In the pack, average!!
As I said, he has not been able to secure a regular place in a very poor international side because he has not to date been an outstanding player.
Incidentally, didn't Sir Alex sign Veron? Wink

I reckon that;s a bit harsh on Young Jak. He certainly isn't world class or even a great premiership player but he is a good player. Certainly above premier league average with perhaps the ability to improve at Man U.

I chose my words very carefully. I said Young "has not to date been an outstanding player", I think he does have the ability to improve. He does need to do that if he is to break out of the pack of average PREMIER league players and become a memorable talent.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:52 pm

Avfc_4eva_Sotc wrote:I'm not missing the point at all, even if we decide limit our selves to just the premierleague we can still see the game has moved on over the years, sure its easier to compare todays players with the more recent but there has still been large changes in the 20 years of the competition.

Take Villa for instance in 95/96 finished 4th, but only 2 seasons ago the team got more points then the villa of that season and only finished 6th. That suggests that the quality at the top and even middle of the league has improved.

At the end of the day unless we can bring back some players from 10 15 years ago in there prime and watch them make Young look stupid we can't prove that he is average in comparison, we can only compare him to whats out there now, and he has proved him self to be one of the better performers in the league over the years without playing for one of the best teams. He is in no way an average player its a ridiculous notion.

I'll ask you to answer my question too.
Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate?

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villanfromluton on Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:51 pm

Jak, there is some way between average and outstanding and Young is in that category somewhere, good player.

As for the history of the premier league, is that a fair thing to judge? Over the last 4 seasons he has been high up in the players in the premiership IMHO. Certainly higher than the likes of Arshavin, Walcott, Rosisky IMHO.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  Jay.P.A on Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:33 pm

I'd rate Young very highly in the current PL era Jak, espeically with his number of goals and assists from Midfield.
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:41 pm

villanfromluton wrote:Jak, there is some way between average and outstanding and Young is in that category somewhere, good player.

As for the history of the premier league, is that a fair thing to judge? Over the last 4 seasons he has been high up in the players in the premiership IMHO. Certainly higher than the likes of Arshavin, Walcott, Rosisky IMHO.
Again you're likening him to very average performers, he's just one of the pack.
Incidentally Rosicky is one of the worst players I've seen in an Arsenal shirt.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:50 pm

Jay.P.A wrote:I'd rate Young very highly in the current PL era Jak, espeically with his number of goals and assists from Midfield.
The quality of players currently playing in the PL is at a very low ebb, in my honest opinion.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:55 am

jak wrote:
QBVILLA wrote:
jak wrote:
QBVILLA wrote:Gotta say teh Arsenal old boys generally speak with a certain amount of sense ableit JPR's one eyedness.However, throughout this thread it's been complete bollocks.For a start an 'average' footballer does not play in the premiership.Young whilst not World Class,(who in the Premiership is? Rooney maybe?fabregas? Well he can't get into the Spanish side) is certainly one of the top players in the league.Sir Alex wouldn't be handing over a £20m fee and £120k a week for a player who is 'average'.So in summary, you fellas are chatting utter cock Very Happy

Standards are judged relative to the criteria set. I am talking about the Premier league, of course if we widened that criteria to include all professional players then you would judge most players in the PL as being excellent.
You're right, who in the PL is world class? That's the point, at the moment only one or two but that certainly has not always been the case.
Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate? In the pack, average!!
As I said, he has not been able to secure a regular place in a very poor international side because he has not to date been an outstanding player.
Incidentally, didn't Sir Alex sign Veron? Wink

veron was a top class player, just not suited to the Premiership.I seem to remember Yorke being spoken about in the same terms when he was at Villa.When he got the chance to showcase his talents at United he got plenty of plaudits.Young as a winger, is good enough for any team in the Premiership.IMO an average player wouldn't qualify for that.the fact he hasn't been able to secure a place for England comes down to the opinion of Capello, a man who deemed Beckham surplus to requirements at Real Madrid.As you'll recall Crapello got plenty of stick for not starting with Young last international and in all fairness you can't judge a players ability on his England caps.Phil Neville has more caps than Hoddle,le Tissier and Gascoigne for example.I can't see many people thinking that ugly Phil is better than those three.

Didn't Veron get the chance to showcase his talents at United. He was unarguably, a total flop!!!
As for the rest of what you say, Young has made absolutely no impact at international level.
Now, you've skirted around my question. Were the history of the PL written today, where would Young rate?


Young has made an impact at international level, especially over the last three or four games.I didn't actually see your question but I will answer it.Young would be up there.At the moment it'd be more in terms of potential but within five years when he's got another 40 caps and multiple medals he'll be right up there, no worries on that one.I'd argue that in Premiership history we'd struggle to name 20 truly world class players that we'd all agree on.You have the truly outstanding players of PL history.
Shearer (only 1 medal)
Henry
Bergkamp
Cantona (International outcast)
Zola (never established as a regular for Italy)
Pires (obviously not by the time he came to Villa Mad )
Schmeichel
Gerrard
Drogba
Lampard(wonder how many will agree with that?)
Paul Mcgrath (Finest centre half i've ever seen)
Ronaldo
Owen (In his Liverpool days)
Giggs
Scholes
Beckham
Keane
Vieira
Feel free to add to them.I'm not suggesting Young is worthy of being considered in that company as yet but he's in the pack behind them
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  villanfromluton on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:45 am

Fowler? (never made it at international level, but was top performer)
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jak on Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:49 am

Exactly QB!!
You could go on adding to that list of class players for a long time before you added Young's name to it. Which makes my point, AT PRESENT, Young is very much in the pack of average 'Premier League' players.
What he does in the future, who knows?
He's certainly got the potential, time alone will tell!!

Oh!! By the way,QB, sorry for chatting such ''utter cock''. Wink

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:09 am

jak wrote:Exactly QB!!
You could go on adding to that list of class players for a long time before you added Young's name to it. Which makes my point, AT PRESENT, Young is very much in the pack of average 'Premier League' players.
What he does in the future, who knows?
He's certainly got the potential, time alone will tell!!

Oh!! By the way,QB, sorry for chatting such ''utter cock''. Wink

The players i've listed were/are IMO the ones i'd regard as the best PL players.To not be in their company doesn't mean a player is average though.I think when his career is over Young will be in the same bracket as the likes of merson, and as we both know the Merse was no average player
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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  jpr60 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:15 am

Just for the sake of "good order" one would have to add The Arsenal defence in any list of outstanding top PL players, as a unit, thus -
Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn plus Keown and Campbell.
There, that's better!

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  roadoftrinity on Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:40 am

jpr60 wrote:Just for the sake of "good order" one would have to add The Arsenal defence in any list of outstanding top PL players, as a unit, thus -
Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn plus Keown and Campbell.
There, that's better!

Neither Dixon or Winterburn made it at international level in an average England side so in the rules that you Arsenal fan's specified, they are nothing more than average I'm afraid.

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Re: Stewart Downing..

Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:15 am

roadoftrinity wrote:
jpr60 wrote:Just for the sake of "good order" one would have to add The Arsenal defence in any list of outstanding top PL players, as a unit, thus -
Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn plus Keown and Campbell.
There, that's better!

Neither Dixon or Winterburn made it at international level in an average England side so in the rules that you Arsenal fan's specified, they are nothing more than average I'm afraid.

Nor Bould and to be fair Adams spent years in the international wilderness after being labelled a donkey at Euro '88.Keown was never first choice either, only ever in there to cover injuries.All excellent players IMO but due to jak's criteria they are shit. Very Happy
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