Even I'm sorry for them.

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Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  jpr60 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:51 pm

Leeds Utd have agreed to sell their club captain - Jonny Howson - to Norwich. Since Howson is just about their best player - he's leaving cos he wants Premier League football - what does that say about Leeds' ambitions? They've lost a few good players in the recent past and whilst I rate their manager Grayson I reckon Bates is the reason the club won't progress. He's too busy counting his profits in Monacco - greedy barsteward!

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Post  Guest on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Howson refused to sign a new contract, can't blame the owner for that.

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Re: Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  Tilton on Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:29 pm

And he's been offered the chance to play in the Premier League. And get away from Leeds.

Can't blame anybody for that.

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Re: Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  jpr60 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:58 am

Yes, but doesn't it say "I'd like to play in The Premier league and there's no chance of that with Leeds Utd"? If Leeds were going anywhere players would stay to travel with them - no, for me it's Bates and his piss-poor handling of the club. He simply doesn't like spending money, end of.

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Re: Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:13 am

jpr60 wrote:Yes, but doesn't it say "I'd like to play in The Premier league and there's no chance of that with Leeds Utd"? If Leeds were going anywhere players would stay to travel with them - no, for me it's Bates and his piss-poor handling of the club. He simply doesn't like spending money, end of.


So does that also apply to Nasri and Fabregas in regards to Wenger?
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Re: Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  Tilton on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:47 am

Exactly. Those players left because they wanted a chance to win something and Arsenal aren't looking like doing that anytime soon. I'm sure the extra money comes in handy too.

There's certainly no guarantee that Leeds will get promoted this season, next season or ever.
Most players in his situation would do exactly the same thing.

Don't feel sorry for Leeds. They somehow managed to blag £ 6 million out of Villa for Fabian Delph! And he's not very good. They weren't complaining then.



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Post  jpr60 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:52 pm

QBVILLA wrote:
jpr60 wrote:Yes, but doesn't it say "I'd like to play in The Premier league and there's no chance of that with Leeds Utd"? If Leeds were going anywhere players would stay to travel with them - no, for me it's Bates and his piss-poor handling of the club. He simply doesn't like spending money, end of.


So does that also apply to Nasri and Fabregas in regards to Wenger?


Hardly QB. Howson wants to play in The Premier League, Arsenal are in the Premier League.
Nasri was offered twice his current wage, then said he wanted to join a team that would win something. I believe it was the money rather than the winning-something that really mattered (and I don't blame him TBH - who wouldn't accept double salary for doing less i.e. he doesn't get much playing time at his new rich club).
Fabregas wanted to go home - not about money, not (necessarily) about winning but playing at his home club. Can't argue with that either. In neither case could Arsenal, or Wenger compete.
Bates, however, refuses to pay the going wage in the Championship whilst charging the highest ground entry prices - Leeds have lost players simply because they don't match up with their competition in terms of wages. Arsenal, of course cannot match ManC or Chelsea in terms of large amounts of money but are competitive with most other clubs.

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Post  QBVILLA on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:08 pm

JP, I like you, think you're a smashing bloke but you are extremely one eyed when it comes to the Arsenal.
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Re: Even I'm sorry for them.

Post  villanfromluton on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well
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Post  jpr60 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:04 pm

villanfromluton wrote:Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well

My one regret is that Fabregas didn't captain The Arsenal to a major trophy. Had we been winning trophies Cesc may well have opted to stay longer but who knows? He was always going to return to Barca at some stage and why not whilst they were the best team on the planet and still wanted him?
Arsenal are certainly not on the same (financial) level as ManC - in fact I don't think any club in England is. As long as ManC keep trailing money around they'll always be able to attract whichever players they choose. Both Nasri and Clichy joined ManC for the money on offer and, and I said before, who'd blame them? Neither gets to play as often as before but if you're doubling your salary where's the problem?

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Post  Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:02 pm

jpr60 wrote:
villanfromluton wrote:Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well

My one regret is that Fabregas didn't captain The Arsenal to a major trophy. Had we been winning trophies Cesc may well have opted to stay longer but who knows? He was always going to return to Barca at some stage and why not whilst they were the best team on the planet and still wanted him?
Arsenal are certainly not on the same (financial) level as ManC - in fact I don't think any club in England is. As long as ManC keep trailing money around they'll always be able to attract whichever players they choose. Both Nasri and Clichy joined ManC for the money on offer and, and I said before, who'd blame them? Neither gets to play as often as before but if you're doubling your salary where's the problem?

So you're saying a club with the most destructive financial history for a long time could afford to offer the same wages as financially sound Premier League Norwich? I'd say Howson will be doubling his money too.

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Post  jpr60 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:43 pm

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:
jpr60 wrote:
villanfromluton wrote:Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well

My one regret is that Fabregas didn't captain The Arsenal to a major trophy. Had we been winning trophies Cesc may well have opted to stay longer but who knows? He was always going to return to Barca at some stage and why not whilst they were the best team on the planet and still wanted him?
Arsenal are certainly not on the same (financial) level as ManC - in fact I don't think any club in England is. As long as ManC keep trailing money around they'll always be able to attract whichever players they choose. Both Nasri and Clichy joined ManC for the money on offer and, and I said before, who'd blame them? Neither gets to play as often as before but if you're doubling your salary where's the problem?

So you're saying a club with the most destructive financial history for a long time could afford to offer the same wages as financially sound Premier League Norwich? I'd say Howson will be doubling his money too.


Agreed, but the point I was originally trying to make was, here are Leeds United, claiming to be on the way to promotion to the Premier League yet unable to pay whatever necessary to keep key players, such as their captain, to further the cause. If Club Captain Jonny Howson says "I'm off to play Premer League football" it means Leeds United are not offering that to him any time soon which is massively disappointing if you're a Leeds fan, somewhat amusing if you're not. My feeling is that Bates keeps a tight hold on Leeds finances to the point where he will never be able to achieve what he claims to be his aim, life in the Premier League. They have a good manager in Grayson and they've had some stand-out players in recent times but it looks as though they're on a no-win course right now.

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Post  Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:48 pm

jpr60 wrote:
Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:
jpr60 wrote:
villanfromluton wrote:Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well

My one regret is that Fabregas didn't captain The Arsenal to a major trophy. Had we been winning trophies Cesc may well have opted to stay longer but who knows? He was always going to return to Barca at some stage and why not whilst they were the best team on the planet and still wanted him?
Arsenal are certainly not on the same (financial) level as ManC - in fact I don't think any club in England is. As long as ManC keep trailing money around they'll always be able to attract whichever players they choose. Both Nasri and Clichy joined ManC for the money on offer and, and I said before, who'd blame them? Neither gets to play as often as before but if you're doubling your salary where's the problem?

So you're saying a club with the most destructive financial history for a long time could afford to offer the same wages as financially sound Premier League Norwich? I'd say Howson will be doubling his money too.


Agreed, but the point I was originally trying to make was, here are Leeds United, claiming to be on the way to promotion to the Premier League yet unable to pay whatever necessary to keep key players, such as their captain, to further the cause. If Club Captain Jonny Howson says "I'm off to play Premer League football" it means Leeds United are not offering that to him any time soon which is massively disappointing if you're a Leeds fan, somewhat amusing if you're not. My feeling is that Bates keeps a tight hold on Leeds finances to the point where he will never be able to achieve what he claims to be his aim, life in the Premier League. They have a good manager in Grayson and they've had some stand-out players in recent times but it looks as though they're on a no-win course right now.

Replace "Leeds United" with "Arsenal" and "Promotion to the Premier League" with "challenging for major honours" and you'll see what every neutral fan outside of the Emirates can see.

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Post  jpr60 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:13 pm

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:
jpr60 wrote:
Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:
jpr60 wrote:
villanfromluton wrote:Dont you think if Arsenal had been winning trophies, Fabregas would have stayed for longer cos I do. As for Nasri, yes he went for money, but again there is the issue that Arsenal probably are not on the same level as Man City now. Clichy as well

My one regret is that Fabregas didn't captain The Arsenal to a major trophy. Had we been winning trophies Cesc may well have opted to stay longer but who knows? He was always going to return to Barca at some stage and why not whilst they were the best team on the planet and still wanted him?
Arsenal are certainly not on the same (financial) level as ManC - in fact I don't think any club in England is. As long as ManC keep trailing money around they'll always be able to attract whichever players they choose. Both Nasri and Clichy joined ManC for the money on offer and, and I said before, who'd blame them? Neither gets to play as often as before but if you're doubling your salary where's the problem?

So you're saying a club with the most destructive financial history for a long time could afford to offer the same wages as financially sound Premier League Norwich? I'd say Howson will be doubling his money too.


Agreed, but the point I was originally trying to make was, here are Leeds United, claiming to be on the way to promotion to the Premier League yet unable to pay whatever necessary to keep key players, such as their captain, to further the cause. If Club Captain Jonny Howson says "I'm off to play Premer League football" it means Leeds United are not offering that to him any time soon which is massively disappointing if you're a Leeds fan, somewhat amusing if you're not. My feeling is that Bates keeps a tight hold on Leeds finances to the point where he will never be able to achieve what he claims to be his aim, life in the Premier League. They have a good manager in Grayson and they've had some stand-out players in recent times but it looks as though they're on a no-win course right now.

Replace "Leeds United" with "Arsenal" and "Promotion to the Premier League" with "challenging for major honours" and you'll see what every neutral fan outside of the Emirates can see.


Again - it's not Arsenal's inability to pay reasonable sums of money in player's wages that's lost them the likes of Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy and Kolo Toure and Adebayour before them. Fabregas was a special "ET" case, Nasri was tapped up coming into his final Arsenal contract year by a club willing to double his salary (a no-brainer for either Arsenal or the player), Clichy and Toure were allowed out and went to the highest payer (guess which club that was) and Ade decided he was gonna be a star - Real Madrid/oh, ManC (who still pay the bulk of his ridiculous salary whilst Tottingham use him) - there seems to be a pattern emerging here, no? Arsenal cannot and will not compete financially with ManC - indeed if and when the financial regulations come into force (don't hold your breath) they'll have to tone down their financial excesses somewhat which might help to level out the playing field again.
Neutral fans will see what they want to see I suppose - good luck. Meanwhile I have every faith in the way The Arsenal go about their business, even if they're having to struggle to keep up at the present time.

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Post  Guest on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Arsenal aren't exactly strapped for cash. Leeds are working on a Championship budget, Norwich are working on a newly promoted PL team budget. The difference is massive.

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Post  jpr60 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:20 pm

Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:Arsenal aren't exactly strapped for cash. Leeds are working on a Championship budget, Norwich are working on a newly promoted PL team budget. The difference is massive.

No, Arsenal are not short of cash. Leeds are indeed working on a Championship budget, charging Premier League ticket prices for matches and simply not spending a penny (Bates). If there's no sense within the club that there's a future then they'll lose their best players - and they have been, on a seemingly regular basis. That was my original point.

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Post  jpr60 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:58 pm

And now they've "lost" (disposed of) their manager. Feel sorry for Grayson - still, he chose to do the job. Now Bates will give the job to someone else, safe in the knowledge that he won't be able to spend (or try to) any money on players cos the transfer window's closed.
Now, let's see - he can keep the new man in place then sack him at the end of the season cos they didn't get promoted and appoint yet another manager after the transfer window is closed at the end of the summer. Great strategy by Bates - charging Top Four Premier League prices at the gate, doing nothing on the football side of things but developing the stadium to give the club more value (whilst avoiding having to come clean about the past ownership of Leeds Utd - he'll be having an eye on 'Arry's case in the hope of getting out before he's caught up with) before he sells it off - does that sound a bit like his Chelsea modus operandi or what?

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Post  Bedshammer on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:53 pm

Ken Bates and Neil Warnock in bed together. Aiii.
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Post  FrenchSpur on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:56 pm

Bedshammer wrote:Ken Bates and Neil Warnock in bed together. Aiii.

and if they got caught it would be someone else's fault
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Post  Bedshammer on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:00 pm

FrenchSpur wrote:
Bedshammer wrote:Ken Bates and Neil Warnock in bed together. Aiii.

and if they got caught it would be someone else's fault

Of course.
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